Curse

Mewcatus · Jun 27, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

I think that a total market crash is what we need. It;s called self correction and it;s called life and it is also called we are stupid to keep using oil when it is clearly running out and we are stupid to buy big expensive houses that we cannot afford and have lots of luxury items that we clearly don;t need. When interest rates rise, oil prices rise, and people start losing their houses then some people say that the economy needs to be fixed... well guess what... i see that when lots of poor suckers lose their cash and the price of houses are low then i will start buying and then in 7 years i will sell and make mega profit.

It;s the law of the jungle. Eat or be eaten. You can be sure that any smart person would have already traded out their ecto stacks for armbraces or z-keys. i mean, people were trading them in huge amounts about 3 weeks ago when the SF reversion came in....

Same on the ecto / gw market. I will buy ecto when the market bombs out. Maybe, i will help it along by selling ALL my ecto to the merchants. I encourage everyone to bring down the rich ecto hording bastards by selling huge stacks to the merchants.

Just a side note. I love how everyone opposed to the OP's post want this thread closed or just outright disagree without being able to come up with a sensible answer. Obviously they are just noobs who have no idea.

On a lighter note

,

I bet you are one of those who is actually the indirect cause of oil inflation.

R.Shayne · Jun 27, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

So many people are asking for the 100k limit to be removed from trade but what would that do to the ecto market? I have a feeling if one more figure was added to the trade window ecto really would take a dive.

As for ANET trying to impose a limit of 100k on an item that is just stupid. The market determines the value of any item be it a clockwork scythe or longsword. If someone is willing to pay +100k for an item players are going to find a way to pay it.

Phineas · Jun 27, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

For those stating that there is inflation taking place....

1 month ago, 1 Ecto = 5k gold (for example)
Today, 1 Ecto = 4k gold (for example)

Now, surely inflation would be working in the opposite direction? Inflation only affects the value of actual currency.

There is merely a devaluation of an asset which was never implemented as an official unit of currency in GW. Welcome to real world where "the value of your investment can go down as well as up".

Regardless of that... Just let it go. The current meta of GW is best for the game itself, not for the individual with accumulated in-game wealth. It's all about clinging to the majority of the player base for the next installment.

oracle.delphi · Jun 27, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

/signed
yay to lower ecto prices

what anet needs to do now is have shadow arts runes available at the trader again... not having them only allows the rich to get richer...

Yawgmoth · Jun 27, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

People not into the high-end market should stop telling BS, the issue doesn't affect them and in most cases they got no idea about what they're trying to talk about.

Ectos were an established high-end trading currency for over 3 years. Not just a material but a currency, accepted by traders everywhere and holding strong value and buying power despite it's price fluctuations. Strong. The last years ecto price drop from ~7,500 -> ~5,000 was nothing compared to this month's 4,800->3,800. Ectos remained just as strong as they were before, and their buying power in the high-end markets didn't change then.

But now a single careless skill update and a complete lack of action to fix the problem caused an established currency to lose a substantial amount of it's buying power and to even stop being accepted by numerous traders. And it's not the end yet...

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 27, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

On a lighter note

,

I bet you are one of those who is actually the indirect cause of oil inflation.

yes. i am one of the million people using petrol, gas, plastic, and other oil by-products. however, i have lightened my carbon footprint and ride a 250cc Vespa. Compared to when i sold my car i can get 3.8L per 100k on my scooter whereas my old car used to do 8L /100km. I am now saving the planet by 4.2L of fuel per 100km or at least 8.4L of fuel per week.

I am also doing my part to bring down the ecto market too.

This is Guildwars and guess what, my guild mates are all working on bringing down the ecto market. Any other guilds that are willing to challenge us are welcome to do so. How are we doing this? We are selling as many ectos as we can to the merchants to artificially bring down the price in order to engineer a market shift away from ecto into z-keys, lockpicks or ambraces.

We can all fix the oil supply problem as well!!!! STOP USING CARS. Lets change the way we live and work from home, ride a bike or take public transport. what a novel idea!

Today the Ecto, tomorrow the world.

edit: oh, and Anet won;t nerf SF again... they won;t even fix hero battles

lorph · Jun 27, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

I am going one up on the personal attacks by saying, yet another stupid poster. Please ban the m****r f****r for being a C*** B**.

At this point, you are simply shifting into trolling modes. Every statement made is created simple with words like "stupid" and "boring", which are nothing more then just feelings, which is no show-cause for justification.

I think you should be the one banned for personal attacks. Mods should close this useless thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Anet has not said its against the law, but you are simply doing it at your own risk. If you wish to keep doing it in terms of ectos, then do so, no one is stopping you.

But then again, Anet has NEVER made the promise that Ectos would become the definitive stable barter item of choice. That is a player economy imposed perception.

And like all player economy imposed perception, those can change everytime a major or minor update is made. So living with the risk is a fact.

You are saying that its not against Anet law, thus your argument about legal tender, in a game is pointless.

Of course anet never made the promise that ectos would be stable. But that doesn't mean people can't complain. I think its in anet's best interest to not anger their fans before Guildwars 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

When i refer to supply and demand, I refer to it in its generic form. You can simply see the changes actively if you are consistently monitoring the npc merchant.

To look at only at only 1 district in 1 location to justify this statement is nothing short of proof of shallowness and ignorance.

Yet another stupid argument. Just because I only say one district as an example, does that mean I've only looked at 1 district in 1 place once?

Ever heard of the search window that allows you to see all districts?

This only shows your own shallowness and ignorance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

You want to compare the definition of "casual" to "hardcore" gamers actually ?

Question: How many "casual" players are there within GW?

Question: How many of those "casual" players do stock up on ectos for trading?

I only made that assumption up, and given that its officially stated that there are far more "casual" players then "hardcore" ones, I believe that it is actually true that there are less people who stack up on ectos purely for trade then keeping it for getting specific high ended armours.

I dare you to prove me otherwise then. As I at least am able to make somewhat inter-connection, can you ?

Again a poor argument. You never mentioned mentioned "casual" and "hardcore" players until now. I never mentioned "casual" and "hardcore" players until now. This is some argument you pulled out of your ass.

Again you have no way to prove that the people who have ectos in their storage for trade are like a drop of water compared to everyone else who is a glass of water.

The amount of people complaining about ecto prices is proof enough that we are not just a drop of water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

I dont dispute that, but then again, I would never use an unstable commodity for monetary storage purposes, it just makes lousy business sense unless you are speculating. Thus, everything done is purely your prerogative.

All in all, this is one poster who is looking to pick a fight rather then have a discussion. I never throw the 1st punch at anyone, but if I have to retaliate, and flame, no problem.

Arena net is in charge of controlling the prices of ectos and for limiting trades to 100k, while creating many items that are worth more than that (minipets, weapons).

They are responsible for forcing people to use an alternative currency.
They are also responsible for setting the trader prices and for the shadowform buff.

Of course it is their game, but if they mess it up, they'll probably do it again in Guildwars 2.

Phineas · Jun 27, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

People not into the high-end market should stop telling BS, the issue doesn't affect them and in most cases they got no idea about what they're trying to talk about.

Ectos were an established high-end trading currency for over 3 years. Not just a material but a currency, accepted by traders everywhere and holding strong value and buying power despite it's price fluctuations. Strong. The last years ecto price drop from ~7,500 -> ~5,000 was nothing compared to this month's 4,800->3,800. Ectos remained just as strong as they were before, and their buying power in the high-end markets didn't change then.

But now a single careless skill update and a complete lack of action to fix the problem caused an established currency to lose a substantial amount of it's buying power and to even stop being accepted by numerous traders. And it's not the end yet...

Established by the players. So, the players need to sort this out, not ANet. Choose another commodity. Your only worry is which one. And what if ectos go back up in value? Then you'll complain some more since you switched stocks. These are the problems facing real-life stockbrokers every day they go to work, and probably on those days they don't work as well. Lucky for you that this is just a game and not real life, eh.

What % of the player base is represented by "the high-end market" I wonder. Should the game really be changed to benefit perhaps the smallest minority in the population?

Yawgmoth · Jun 27, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

I haven't personally lost anything on this market crash, I predicted it and got rid of 90% of my ectos when they were still high. But I care about balance in game and want the devs to care too, for both GW1 and GW2 later. It's not about a benefitting minority, it's about balance and not screwing up the game.

Bowstring Badass · Jun 27, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Sad he is crying about the QQ threads and yet this is one. /close

Lady Lozza · Jun 27, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I'd be interested in seeing statistics on what proportion of ecto the SF farm has brought into the economy - as opposed to what was there before. My guess is that the proportion is not as large as many people think it is.

Many people would say 90%. I would guess closer to 10%. Duping added a lot which were never taken out of game, add that to all the high end trading that has happened, the people who stockpiled it thinking it would be always worth a constant valve - and now that a small amount is sold to the merchant the price is decreasing slowly and steadily.

Remember that most players don't buy from the merchant. They buy from the players. If they don't buy from the merchant the prices don't go up. Since traders base their price on what the merchant is selling at (then take some) the price players sell for will also become less and less while some players (farmers who hate trading) sell to the merchant, and no players buy.

Remember also that demand will be going down too as many players already have the armour they want - or have decided Obsidian isn't worth the cost - or have stopped playing altogether.

Price was always going to drop slowly - the SF might have made it a little faster - but it is hardly the cause of "economic ruin".

Those who have stockpiled believing that ecto would always have a consistant price can hardly cry foul. It's the laws of supply and demand - supply and demand at the npc merchant.

lorph · Jun 27, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Established by the players. So, the players need to sort this out, not ANet. Choose another commodity. Your only worry is which one. And what if ectos go back up in value? Then you'll complain some more since you switched stocks. These are the problems facing real-life stockbrokers every day they go to work, and probably on those days they don't work as well. Lucky for you that this is just a game and not real life, eh.

What % of the player base is represented by "the high-end market" I wonder. Should the game really be changed to benefit perhaps the smallest minority in the population?

Do you buy houses with stock? Replace "houses" with "100k+ item" and "stock" with "ecto" and you will see that it does not match.

Ecto obviously is more than a stock or a commodity, because anet forced the community to use something as currency for trades over 100k.

Its not about benefiting the smallest minority, or giving power to everyone like communism. Its all about not being able to trade.

I don't care if ectos drop to 1 gold as long as something takes care of the gold cap. Removing or raising the trade limit and storage limit would be a solution.

Yawgmoth · Jun 27, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Many people would say 90%. I would guess closer to 10%. Duping added a lot which were never taken out of game, add that to all the high end trading that has happened, the people who stockpiled it thinking it would be always worth a constant valve - and now that a small amount is sold to the merchant the price is decreasing slowly and steadily.

It's not the % of new ectos farmed now compared to ectos already in the game what matters. It's the change of amounts of fresh actively farmed ones that are being sold for gold, to players or to trader.

Think about that the stockpiles of ectos many people had weren't meant to be used in crafting, that were just sitting there and only occassionally swapping hands along with a superrare mini or something. Those ectos don't really affect their market price, they weren't going to hit the trader or even sold to people...

It's the ectos actively being bought and sold in player-player or player-trader transactions that affect their price. It's the fresh new overfarmed ectos that can now be farmed much easier, 2-3x more efficiently AND are farmed by far more people than before. The change in active supply stream is massive and the price reflects that.

And that comment about duping... if you remembered better you would remember the ecto price didn't change even a tiniest bit during the duping week. If a couple stacks survived the bannings it's nothing compared to the ectos already in the economy. But if a couple stacks of armbraces survived... that's quite a difference, but it's not the topic of this thread.

FengShuiDove · Jun 27, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

I agree with OP. Still, I'm sick of hearing about this, and there really don't need to be any more threads about this junk.

Scythe O F Glory · Jun 27, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Great. a QQ thread about... QQ threads.

-rightuos- · Jun 27, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I agree with the OP and Mewcatus as well.

Ectos weren't chosen for their stability... If I recall it had to do with sales of items consisting of things like 120k, and some scammers were running around swindling people on the first 20k traded and taking off. Ectos then started getting used because at the time the only Elite armor in game was Obsidian Armo, and back then UW was the harder elite of only 2. As time has gone by it has fallen in value, yea the whole SF thing has sped it up some i guess. The inevitable price drop was going to happen anyway. No matter how it happened people holding onto a bunch without warning were going to get all butt hurt about it.

Some people suggested the idea ANet may be making it easier for people to get their HoMs filled if that were the case they could have simply raised the drop rate.

I for one stopped holding onto ectos a long time ago. I never liked the idea that it had a target spot for farming. I use black dyes in high end trades as I have noticed they cant really be farmed in large amounts, never seem to go down in value if only for a small amount on double dye drop weekends and even then its not long before they go back up.

My final take on the "SF Gate" is if ANet is noticing a rise in sales of Factions and or empty character slots in the last month, don't expect a nerf anytime soon.

Burst Cancel · Jun 27, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Ectos are closer to currency than securities. The prices of ecto don't fluctuate much in the absence of blatant changes to devalue them, and they're used as units of trade, rather than investments. Nobody buys ectos expecting them to go up or down in value.

An ecto crash benefits the poor, but for no reasons of merit. The rich got there largely by earning it, and they held ectos because of the plat cap and the fact that ectos were de facto currency. Having the holdings of high-value players devalued by heavy-handed dev changes frankly smacks of socialism.

MrSlayer · Jun 27, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

The whiny bitchy pain in the ass stuck up rich people have ecto stacks worth suddenly less than they were before. Sadly, whilst I agree with all you posted, they will never quit whining until the day the GW servers are turned off for good. Maybe we should all just shut the red engine bla up and go play the game, instead of hanging around on the forums bitching?

(I bet the guys who decided to stack lockpicks instead of ecto for their wealth are absolutely laughing in their boots right now

Suddenly doesn't seem like such a dumb idea does it?)

sean520 · Jun 27, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

ectos and things that need ectos are supposed to be rare and presteige. rich people are supposed to have them, not everyone.

since everyone will have ectos, there is no more "presteige" armor, all armor will be cheap as hell. the SF build is so easy, it makes terrible players rich ( just like ursan). its dumb, get over it. anet has completly given up on GW1, they wanna mess up the economy so we all buy GW2.

Arkantos · Jun 27, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

This is just a major flamefest, with no contructive discussion. Closed